Composer George Flynn
A Conversation with Bruce Duffie
George Flynn was born in Montana in 1937 and later studied and taught at Columbia University in New York City. At age 40, he moved to
Chicago and has been a significant force in the musical scene ever since. His major influence springs from activities as composer,
performer and administrator at De Paul University.
A brief summary of his credits is in the box at the end of this page. More details about his life and works can be found at
his website.
Being based in Chicago, he was able to visit the WNIB studios for this interview. In November of 1996, we met and had a congenial
hour discussion of music. Parts of this conversation were used right away on WNIB and later on WNUR. Now I am pleased to be able to share the
entire chat in this visual format . . . . .
Bruce Duffie: You are composer and pianist and teacher. How do you divide your time amongst all these activities?
George Flynn: Sometimes with difficulty. My primary responsibility, of course, would be as a faculty member at DePaul University.
I’m full-time, so I do have full-time responsibilities there.
BD: How long have you been there?
GF: I’ve been there since ’77, and I’m partly administrator. Part of my load is being chair of a department in the School of Music.
BD: Then this is your twentieth year. How have the students changed over twenty years — if at all?
GF: When I first came there, we were just instituting various audition standards, so at the very beginning, students were not really very good musicians
in terms of performance. A lot of them really couldn’t play anything or sing well.
BD: Then why did they want to go into music?
GF: We offered certain majors that didn’t require strong musicianship — for example music therapy, and at the time, music
education. We no longer have a music therapy degree. The students since that time have become really excellent performers and
excellent auditioners. We’re now sending these people out to major orchestras, including singers who now sing with the Met. So
it’s been very successful in that regard.
BD: You used a word I want to pounce on. Is there a difference between being a performer and being an auditioner?
GF: I guess not. If you’re an excellent performer, that ought to show when you’re auditioning. And if you’re not a good
performer, that will show, too. Most of the jobs that are acquired with symphony orchestras are usually by blind audition, so you better be a good
auditioner if you want to show your wares well.
BD: When someone comes to audition for your music program, what do you listen for?
GF: I’m not directly involved in that. The people who are the clarinet teachers and the violin teachers would be involved in that. My
responsibility is in music literature. I chair a department that is primarily a service department. That is, we offer basic
training courses in music for all the people who want to major in performance, music education, composition and so forth. So I’m
not directly involved in auditions, but I know a fair amount about it because I hear about it from my colleagues, and on occasion I have been
involved in those things.
BD: I just wondered what advice you had for people who want to audition.
GF: Do the best job you can! And make sure that you acquire a variety in your repertory. If people suggest that you learn this or that
particular piece for the audition, make sure you do that, and do it well.
BD: You can’t really cram for it at the last minute?
GF: No. The nice thing about these auditions is that they really cannot be faked. You are right there in front of the people who are going
to listen to you, and somebody else can’t do it for you. One of the fears with people who submit compositions is that we never know
who, in fact, really wrote the piece and how much coaching there was.
BD: How much tinkering and mending was done?
GF: That’s right; the teacher suggesting this or that, and so you do it, but in fact it was the teacher’s idea. But when you’re up
there playing, you are on your own, so that’s a real test.
BD: Let’s move over to composition. I assume you’re doing some teaching of composition?
GF: Yes.
BD: How much is your influence, and how much is strictly the idea of the student?
GF: First of all, I’m not sure what we mean by teaching composition. I think that my primary function is as a reactor to what the students do.
That means that I don’t have any secrets of some kind, or the final word on anything. I might have some ideas that come from my
experiences. I talk about these ideas and react to the student works, always with the precaution to the student that these are my
ideas and my opinions, and here’s what I think about it. Generally speaking, I will mention that it is not unreasonable to think
that I’m some unique person and nobody else will have a similar reaction.
BD: Is it reasonable to assume that some of your students come to study with you because they know your compositions and want to learn from you?
GF: That has happened. And it continues to be the case where people will want to pursue a degree that we don’t offer — for
example, a doctorate degree. They want to be able to come study with me, and then get the credit transferred to the school that they’re
at. I don’t know how well things like that can work on a normal basis, but that sort of thing has occurred.
BD: Let me turn the question around. Are there students that come to you, and you feel that another teacher would help them in a better or more direct way?
GF: At DePaul, we try to make sure that the student has at least two different teachers in composition, and ideally three. There are three
people who teach in the regular composition program.
BD: Do they have wildly differing ideas and philosophies?
GF: No, we don’t have that. I guess we would be all essentially mainstream. That’s not meant to be in any way complimentary or
patting myself — or them — on the back. But it is essentially mainstream. For example, we don’t have any people who profess a philosophy of John
Cage. We don’t have any strict minimalists. We don’t have that sort of thing. So, I would say that generally speaking we are all in the
same area. However, we’re all different personalities, and our music demonstrates that. It’s good to have different reactions to this.
BD: Have you basically been pleased with what you see on the pages of your students?
GF: [Thinks for a moment] It’s real hard to answer that. To say that I’m pleased or displeased suggests some general level that
I’m not expecting. What I see is essentially what I expect in terms of level of accomplishment and level of compositional thought. So in
that respect, I’m not surprised and I’m not disappointed.
BD: Are the students generally pleased with what they hear coming out of you?
GF: We’ve had no revolutions that I know of, yet! [Both laugh] Something can always be brewing. I’ve had good reports from students
who have gone elsewhere and then come back and tell me how much they learned. I have not had any students who’ve come back and said,
“I didn’t learn a damn thing!” But of course, we’re not going to get that, anyway. So it’s real hard to tell, in that
respect. I have the impression students think that they get something worthwhile out of the sessions.
BD: That’s good. Do you ever learn anything from your students?
GF: Yes. Frequently I would be learning what doesn’t work, more than what does work. The students are struggling. Many of
them are still trying to find their most basic compositional voices. So in that respect, you learn the level of difficulty and
the kinds of difficulties these students run into in the process of trying to do very basic things!
BD: Are they surprised at how difficult it is?
GF: I can’t be sure. I’m not sure whether they can see the difficulties. They just keep struggling, and the people who keep
struggling consistently are going to eventually reach a level of competence and maybe poetic elegance that they’re going to have to have in order to be successful.
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